Lankavatara 2:IX:5-8

*transcript generated by AI

Good to see you, Greg.

Yeah, likewise.

Likewise.

Good to be here.

We, we missile missile.

Nope.

The audio is really acting up for me.

Do you hear like a fan person.

No, there’s, there’s just a lag.

And it’s pretty unclear.

Can you hear me okay Greg can you hear me okay Greg.

Yeah.

Is anyone catching that echo echo.

Yeah, I hear us echoing through Greg’s system.

No.

No echo.

Do you want to turn that down.

The microphone.

I’m just going to keep it.

I’m just going to keep it on mute unless I’m talking but yeah there, there seem to be like some.

Well I don’t know.

It’ll work out.

Yeah, hopefully this is better because I might have been fighting with the fan.

That is better.

That sounds better to me.

Yeah.

I’m really glad that we don’t have our fan.

I mean maybe you just put it on low.

It’s okay.

It’s not that little sweat won’t hurt anybody.

Yeah.

Nice thing about not trying to be impressive.

Exactly.

So, for context, we are on chapter two section nine, which is pretty frickin fun.

We’ve gone through about the first four paragraphs, I’m just going to read through that just so that we’re on the context of where we are before we pick up where this left off.

I’m going to pause there and just see if anything’s alive for anyone in terms of, you know, living Dharma, because once again it’s very important to recognize that for me, the suture study is a training practice, this is not an intellectual process this is a, an actual symbolic reconstruction and training practice.

So we can kind of anchor the insights and the instructions that were being asked to investigate.

And that’s very critical.

So, here we are.

Chapter two section nine.

Mahamati asked the Buddha saying the Bhagavan speaks of Chitta, Manas, and Vishnana, five Dharmas, and self nature characteristics.

All practices of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, seeing one’s own mind is equal, and that objective realms are not manifested through the sequential compositing of Dharmas.

All these are said to be characteristics of reality.

All Buddhas call this mind.

For the great Bodhisattvas dwelling in the oceans and mountains of Malaya, in the land of Lanka, share the Tathagata’s praises of the Dharmakaya, of the realm of ocean wave storehouse consciousness.

At that time, the Bhagavan told Mahamati Bodhisattva, due to the four causes and conditions, the I-consciousness evolves.

Which four?

They are.

One’s own mind’s manifestations are gathered and received in ignorance.

Beginningless errors pass through the perfuming forms.

Consciousness’s individuating marks are conceptually objectified.

The desire to perceive many fold form characteristics.

Mahamati, these four types of causes and conditions are situated in a flowing stream, and the Alaya-Vishnana’s churning produces waves.

Mahamati, just like the I-consciousness, all sense capacities co-arise along with subtle dusts and gross form.

Indeed, they are all like this, just like a mirror manifesting all the different forms and appearances.

So that’s the section of this sutra that we’ve kind of discussed in our previous sessions on this section.

Is anything alive for anybody in their practice, in their life, related to this or not, that feels like it deserves our attention?

Well, being the pedantic semantic, point at words.

But there was one word that stood out to me, and I’m curious, maybe it’s a translation issue, but realm.

He said the realm of, maybe it was the realm of Tathagata.

What do you think?

Yes.

What do you think they’re pointing at when they say realm?

So realm is a turn.

I think we’re getting an echo through your system.

As a multivalent term, it’s a little bit hard to know for sure.

But actually, later on, it becomes very important to understand how realm is translated.

So I actually have a note here that I’ll just read.

Realm here is related to the Sanskrit word alambana.

If you wanted to do a little more digging.

India is being translated as realms, which is a multivalent word as alambana, it refers to the supporting basis of something, especially the connection between a sensation and the perception that it excites.

It is a sphere of conduct, wherein one’s actions bear fruit.

It contains notions of mood, mental state, feeling, sensation, viewpoint, etc.

As yogins, it is also the practices we engage in to realize the gross form or the manifest form of the eternal ineffable emptiness.

Wow.

That’s incredible.

Can you send me that definition sometime, do you mind?

It is on the website.

2.9, the translation.

It’s in the article.

Yeah.

Okay.

I appreciate how that’s a…

I would say that’s more like a state of mind or an ontological state than it is a place, you know?

Yes, it is.

So realm here is the ontological experience.

And it’s kind of like interpenetrating totality.

Yeah.

And that’s one of the things that I love about it is that it’s both ontological and epistemological.

So it’s like a being investigation and a knowing investigation, and it doesn’t really like prioritize one over the other.

It’s like you can’t have an ontology without an epistemology and you can’t have an epistemology without an ontology.

So the whole thing is blending these two together, which is I think what makes it such a powerful training menu.

Basking.

Nice one.

I got nothing, just basking.

Let it happen.

Hopefully not in my fragrance, as we are in a pretty sticky… 137% humidity today.

So that’s where we’re at.

And the next little section here.

Anything else?

My read of the room was that we were ready to move on.

Okay.

Always feel free to interrupt me.

I love this line here.

I think it’s really beautiful and it also frames a really critical Yogachara perspective about liberation.

And self-realization in the context here.

It says, Mahamati, like a fierce wind blowing on the water of the great ocean, the winds of the external realm buffeted the chitta ocean, the mind ocean, and the waves of consciousness arise without end.

Mahamati, like a fierce wind blowing on the water of the great ocean, the winds of the external realm buffeted the chitta ocean, and the waves of consciousness arise without end.

And it might be worth it to just kind of like, let that soak in and move on to the next section so we have a little bit more here.

The thing that I want to make sure everyone hears there is that the waves of consciousness arise without end.

Really critically different than a lot of perspectives on consciousness and the ideas of cessation and the idea of extinguishment.

What it’s saying here is that that seeding, perfuming process, the interaction of our interior and exterior, kind of this liminal interpenetration, is always happening.

That becomes important as we get a few more paragraphs in.

Because constructed nimitta…

Okay, so nimitta are conceptual perceptions or perceptual appearances.

It’s like when you see something, before it has meaning, it’s like a sight sensation.

And it becomes a perceptual experience as that image turns into something that we give meaning to, and then we create a subject-object relationship with.

So that’s kind of what we’re talking about by nimitta.

Because constructed nimitta are different and not different.

For example, seeing the Lego orchid and seeing the Buddhist statue are different and not different.

They’re different in the sense that I label them different things because to me they appear to have different forms, blah blah blah, yada yada.

They’re not different because they’re both an experience of sight nimitta.

They’re different and not different.

Essentially the same, superficially different.

And because nimitta arise according to karma, meaning they arise according to causes and conditions and seeds and perfuming, bearing fruit.

They arise according to this unfolding chain in these discrete moments, not a series of moments, but in a discrete sense.

One enters deeply into fixation, into conceptual fixation.

And what that means is that our subjective experience of that being a Lego orchid and that being a Buddha becomes so reified and so fixed that it’s extremely difficult to convince ourselves to perceive those things as other things.

Maybe someone somewhere is deep enough in their own consciousness where they could convince themselves that the Lego orchid looks like a Buddha statue and the Buddha statue looks like a Lego orchid and they magically make those things switch positions while they’re sober.

I don’t know.

I can’t do that.

So that conceptual fixation of relative experience because of the interplay of causes and conditions like we just really like deep and it’s profound and it happens prior to myself in process.

So I am built out of those experiences.

It’s not that there’s an I who’s having those experiences.

If there’s an I who’s having those experiences, then I would be able to change those experiences.

I arises in relationship to those experiences.

And so it is not possible to comprehend the self nature of form, etc.

And in this case that’s referring to the five skandhas.

Therefore, the five sense consciousness body transforms and what that means is that, therefore, we are kind of riding on the waves of the ever evolving sensing perceiving mechanism at the basis of our human process, which metaphorically wins water questions, comments, concerns about that and juicy nutty.

Hmm.

No, that one seems to that seems fairly straightforward compared to some of the previous.

Yeah, you know we’re deep when that’s straightforward.

Like that just makes sense.

Yeah, that’s an interesting point.

That’s an interesting point on me.

Sorry about that.

It’s, we know when that’s perfect.

Sorry, as soon as I turn on the mic, it starts echoing I guess that that’s validating to hear because it really reflects what I feel is like a deep intuitive understanding that I’ve not really ever been able to articulate that way.

Can you re articulate it for us in your words, please.

Sure, there’s the real time perception is often as though there is an eye that is witnessing this that is separate from what’s being witnessed, but in reality, they are inseparable and that sense of an eye does not arise without the interpenetration of what’s happening as it’s very ground.

I think you’re right.

Yeah, nicely said, that’s, that is a critical step.

Critical insight.

Well said.

Let’s go ahead and move on, because I think that this, we’re right.

I think we’re ready.

So, the next section of this sutra says Mahamati, the five sense consciousness body arising in conjunction with differentiating and partitioning cognition of perceptual appearances nimitta should be known as Vijnana.

Vijnana is like a discursive knowledge.

Causing your body to evolve.

Now, when I was researching the commentary around, first off, the Lankavatara, there’s very little accessible commentary on it.

Also in very challenging Chinese.

So the body here Suzuki treats is, and then the word here is actually like pores.

It’s like very much the gross physical body, and Suzuki treats it as such he actually says pores red pine I think there’s something a little bit more abstract.

And I just want the body.

So I think it’s really good to explore what we are really talking about here.

And what I think, or what I would like to offer from my contemplation of this is that as our sensory experience engages in its dynamic interplay and unfolding.

Okay.

This is what allows our physical experience to take on the impression or to take on the expression of continuity of change in continuity.

And what I mean by that is we have the experience of being a self being a person who persists through time.

Because we kind of like know that all of these separate things are happening to me.

And this body.

And this form.

And what I know about my experience is directly creating my physical experience.

Okay.

And we see some signs of this and the power of placebo.

How do we know something will make us feel better than it does.

Right.

But how do we know that it will make us feel better because we experience in our five, our five sense consciousnesses shifts and change that we continue to relate to over time.

And this metacognitive capacity to stitch together moments and hold it in a consecutive narrative that’s happening to me.

That allows my physical expression to feel like a coherent evolution of a single person.

I think that’s the mechanism that it’s talking about.

Yeah, I’ve heard the language use like the you know the illusion of a permanent separate self as ego.

I think they’re talking about that process I’ve heard an analogy of like the, the fluorescent light that we perceive as like one constant light stream, but it’s actually flicking on and off really really fast.

And, and then we manufacture the perception of continuity.

So, that’s playing out at the level of, of self, I can see, are they also saying that’s playing out at the.

It’s actually playing out at the physical level, like like there’s something there that’s keeping this whole body together as though it’s one physically continuous thing.

I believe so.

The language is pretty unambiguous that it’s talking about gross materiality.

But it doesn’t really go on to elaborate on the point, I don’t know if it.

I don’t remember that it digs into that much later in the sutra but I am going to be keeping an eye out for it because it’s kind of just like dropped in there I was like, Oh, by the way, your consciousness is creating a physical form.

Is that crazy for sitting here going like, Yeah, uh huh.

And no I don’t think so.

Okay.

It does feel like it’s just kind of like, okay.

I was like that’s, yes.

Makes sense.

Where are you going with nowhere.

Okay, cool.

Not just me then.

I’m going somewhere with it, but the, the whole like nugget about this being a relationship with materiality is just kind of like thrown in there, and then they do shift back into the, the never ending, you know, waving quality of it and the ever evolving nature of things by criticizing the shit out of not out of meditators who think that their state shifts are liberating.

So that’s where it goes next if we want to just go into that.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Matt Do I see you in the same.

Okay.

What’s that.

Massaging my knee.

As I was listening.

Just this whole section feels like.

Sorry, I’m not trying to interrupt there’s some.

The whole section feels like reminiscent of, like, Trump Rinpoche is cutting through spiritual materialism, where they’re talking about like a certain stage in, you know, spiritual, spiritual development where the ego starts to take these experiences and ideas and then turn them into a separate self but but that really, there’s something more beyond that and this seems like, you know, the medicine for that in their way.

Yes.

I’m going to come back to this specifically in a little bit where it talks about the boonies and the stages of practice, and, you know, the shared ones between Mahayana and Hinayana vehicles and then what happens after the realization if you continue training and that actually is in just a couple paragraphs.

Yeah.

We’re back.

Okay, so here we go.

Quick terminology check.

Yeah.

Just a.

Just on a rising moment of consciousness right.

Chitta is another multivalent word that seems lots of different ways.

And this particular sutra, I find it to mostly seem to indicate like the entire experience of, of a mind only moment.

Chitta would be like the thing that they described through eight consciousnesses.

Okay.

And it’s like a Chitta is flowing, right, right, it’s the ocean that’s moving and movement of the ocean is described in the eight layers of consciousness.

Chitta being a singular would be each of those waves in the ocean.

One, or at least one after the other.

Yeah, yeah.

We want to, we want to kind of think of fluidity but we also want to think of discreetness.

Right.

So these are like not completely separate, but not completely continuous as light ends up being a great more for for its particle and wave.

Yeah.

So, we can kind of think of as the light thing of mind.

Okay.

And the eight consciousness is kind of like spectrums, or areas on the spectrum.

Again, all metaphors are.

Okay.

So, so this one is the next thing here, it says, Okay, they, and they, after lots of digging is people who are not self realized according to the London stars teachings.

Okay.

And they’re basically criticizing dualistic meditators, or the hand on a vehicle.

cessation realization.

Okay.

They, the not self realized, don’t think I develop and evolve nimitta causes my own mind appears turning around to elusive constructs arising from karmically purpuing to tendencies, appearing as subject to object experience and mistaken as real that are sequentially composited reified and clung to the people who are not self realized don’t think like that.

To be fair, I don’t think anyone nowadays is going to think like that because that was a mouthful.

But it was like a very short summary of what it’s saying realized perspective is.

Okay, so they don’t think like that.

And they’re every decaying characteristic also turns, such as separating realms, so so the decaying characteristics are that there’s like a maturation and abiding a decaying and an extinguishment right so there’s like this fourfold process of a phenomenon every discrete moment.

Right.

And so they’re saying that these decaying characteristics are constantly turning the impermanence is constantly turning and such as separating realms, which is like taking those ontological realms of experience that we were talking about and saying, Oh, this was one of those and this is one of those and my sadness is of this quality and my happiness is of this body and this is different from that right so they’re separating their realms of ontological experience.

They’re partitioning, they’re partitioning, and they’re differentiating, and all of this is known as revolving there, or we would say that their mind is spinning or turning with a CH you are, and right.

Okay.

So, they don’t do that and then take these yogins who are entering Diana Samadhi, which is like the Jonas.

Okay.

Subtle perfuming revolves, and they are not aware of that knowledge.

It happens when my consciousness ceases it happens when my self referencing consciousness ceases.

Right.

And there’s a subtle, there’s a subtle something that continues all the way through the genres because otherwise we wouldn’t be aware of that experience and when we have cessation experiences, then we don’t have self referencing.

But we can’t be aware of being in just a body, somebody during a cessation experience.

Right.

It is not that consciousness ceases, and then the honest somebody is entered the perfuming seeding doesn’t stop.

There is no cessation.

The text doesn’t say this but parenthetically, in that way.

Right, there is no cessation of the flow of mind in that way.

It is the absence of grasping after revolving realms that causes cessation.

And again, it doesn’t say cessation of what but because we’re a Buddhist, we’re going to say cessation of ignorance, because that’s the sociological basis for our practice.

So, self realization occurs when we are so clear on how all of these realms, these ontological experiences that we know epistemologically arise and fall away, sharing the same essence, and therefore we don’t grasp after this one and run away from that one.

We no longer see it as me having a self which is having this experience we see them as interpenetrating arising causes and conditions in real time noticing the multitude of Indra’s webs gems reflecting each other to create this discrete experience blink blink blink blink blink.

And now we’re self realized.

Beautiful.

That makes sense.

It’s actually surprisingly straightforward.

Yeah, it is.

Actually, strange noises.

Oh, that was getting a drink of water.

Oh, that was that strange.

I don’t know if I have a ton of.

Seems to be pretty straightforward.

I think it’s critical that it’s such a critical difference from thinking that there is some altered state we’re going to achieve where thoughtlessness is some like super awesome thing.

Yeah.

Is it wrong me to, like, I mean, since we started here like my, like I keep coming back to dynamic energy.

There’s that, you know, going back to the first analogy there’s dynamic energy of the wind.

There’s the dynamic energy of the waving.

There’s, you know, there’s this the constant perfuming process there’s the constant interpenetration, like recycling process that’s happening and then even the comparison to like hitting on a path like then, you know, criticizing their, their claims of sensation of it’s of it stopping because of a thing happening not recognizing that, that there is still that dynamic energy at play.

But then I, like, then it crossed my mind it’s like it.

Well, is that like stating that there’s like permanence of dynamic energy, like his dynamic energy impermanent to.

Or is it just impermanent in its in its dynamic energy.

Right.

Yeah, there’s no stasis.

Yeah.

And a lot of in the cultural milieu of these texts what it was being contrasted to was an ever permanent unchanging bliss in a world of constant change what were people seeking they were seeking stability and stay.

And if you follow the.

So the yoga training, which yoga turns practice demands, you do have altered state experiences of cosmic oneness that seems like a permanent ontological basis of light and bliss, and etc.

And they’re held up as a separate state and they say that non dual is merging with his yoga is union with that sublime.

And so the way that artists is evolving is basically saying well the sublime itself is the function of the dynamic interplay of that light.

I do still say that the fruit of spiritual practices, tongue tingle up, which is permanence purity self and bliss.

So in this tradition that is still the fruit of spiritual practice but that’s arrived at through the realization of the constant unfolding inner penetrating nature of that basis.

And not by clinging to it as a abstract state experience that we enter through deep concentration meditation.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

I think, yeah.

Like, like, again back to the ocean again like the wind can die down in the water can settle but the wind’s not going to stay died down forever like the external world that’s winding like is dynamic it’s always changing.

And so it’s always going to be interacting, you know, like in everywhere.

from a slightly different perspective and say that even if the wind dies down.

That’s not necessarily going to stop a lot of the wind, the water still has current so our water.

Yeah, still water has momentum.

Yeah, it’s like that analogy of trying to stir the water it’s like yeah you just got to like stop stirring it for a while like it’ll settle, you know, it’ll settle over time, you know, based on like just dampening.

Slightly different teaching that teaching is specifically related to selling the mind for the purpose of entering into meditative absorption, which is different than the context of what is the nature of reality.

So in the nature of reality we’re using the ocean, and the ocean represents our internal karmic perfuming, which is inherited from the beginning was passed.

And so there are constant transpersonal currents that can occur, even without there being any wins.

Ryan’s question about here having an earwig and hearing a tune in his head in the absence of any external source of sound.

There is a current moving in his water feel there doesn’t need to be wind externally to produce that movement of consciousness.

That’s a nature of reality thing.

Greg want to chime in here too so I don’t want to keep him cut off for too much longer.

Well I don’t want to jump in just, just, just yet I’ll wait.

I mean but isn’t that like the tinnitus or the ringing or the earwig or whatever we’re talking about like isn’t that a like a result or lingering result of the wind in the first place.

You could say that when it comes to tonight is yeah that’s a real lingering result of a rather explosive external wind that I don’t get to experience for the rest of forever, annoyingly.

So this is why it’s non dual right because the visa, the seeds become the perfume.

Yeah.

So at the point where there is no longer an external source.

There’s no seed.

The seed is the perfume itself, which can happen.

And we can say that the perfume itself can produce its own seed, which we would typically call memory.

And that memory can come back and perfume.

Right, so they don’t have to be external to our physical skin barrier, these can be external to our sense of self.

That’s right yeah they’ll they’ll transform, like, and so they can all once they’ve transformed and they can go out in either direction, play with either Yeah, my, my take on this is that they’re, they’re really just describing the substrate of reality, right like the substrate upon which everything exists, and they’re going into enough granularity to describe the mechanisms, such that it’s adequate to when you engage that epistemological understanding can have an ontological shift towards an experience of cessation, or all experience, but all of those are occurring within this greater substrate that they’re describing.

I wouldn’t call it permanent.

I’d say it’s without end.

So, ever moving dynamic energy with no end.

If we want to call that permanent is a different kind of permanent than the experience of permanence, because there’s nothing outside of it.

That’s my take but what comes up for me is interesting.

It’s a little bit philosophical, which is very strong ping.

It’s like okay.

And why.

Why, why is it this way why all the complexity.

What’s the purpose.

I don’t know if they address that and I don’t know that they’re even trying to, but that’s what comes up for me.

I mean, why are they going to such great lengths to describe the substrate of reality of reality.

No, no, no, no.

Why are things, why is reality organized this way.

They’re talking about what is, but I’m like, like, I want like, like, like, I really appreciate the Vedanta, like Advaita Vedanta kind of worldview on some idea of a all conscious all organizing principle, the all right that that needs to have.

A, it needs to be this way so that it can experience its own nature.

Right, something like that.

Do they get into that philosophical aspect at all.

My experience of this tradition is that it does not do metaphysical cosmology.

It does not do metaphysical cosmology is solely focused on what stops you from living in this incarnation as a delusion ignorant suffering be.

And it kind of says, we don’t really care, because we can’t really like nothing that we investigate through our direct experience has revealed that to us, except for the recognition that whatever we’re experiencing is a projection of our own mind.

So when I’m having a deity yoga experience and I’m merging with green Tara, or I’ve unzipped, and all of a sudden I’ve manifested into a giant blue Shiva.

These kind of altered state experiences have no liberative quality, in the sense that they do not fundamentally reorganize the way that I relate to my mundane experience.

So what’s the point of those altered state experiences.

Well, this system would argue that there isn’t one.

There’s kind of cool fair.

That would be aggressive.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to interrupt.

What’s the point of the whole thing.

Why is this even happening.

I think, I think we all get to make up our own reason for that.

Give us the answer me.

Chapter three section two paragraph.

Let’s go.

We’re closing check in, we all have the opportunity to share our current metaphysical answer to, to that question, just as a, as a way to connect because this is highly individual and is not is not a part of this practice, that’s something that we are left to determine for ourselves through our own investigation.

So, I would like to invite us as a as a connection as a connection point to share where we stand on that very religiously significant spiritually significant metaphysical question.

And I want to go first.

Hello.

It’s not obligatory obligatory.

You can choose not to share, it’s not that I wouldn’t share that I love a good answer.

Fair enough.

I get to have something to reflect on.

Yeah, I guess I’ll go first.

Yep, checking in.

I can’t, I can’t prove this, but it really seems to me like there’s a telos.

There’s a direction that everything’s going in.

And it’s evolutionary.

And it’s also cyclical.

It might just be one big circle but within that circle.

It’s, it’s like we could put a start in a stop point.

And the stop, the stopping point would be when all inorganic inorganic matter in the universe is incorporated into a single life form.

It’s, it’s like there is separation and division and division in the material realm.

But it’s always moving towards life, becoming more and more complex life integrating more and more things into an interpenetrating system, which is sort of a reflection of this deeper truth that’s the nature of everything already that they’re talking about, but it’s being acted out in a physical realm in a progressive way there’s a progression to it.

So, that’s, that’s my answer that’s.

Yeah, that’s what I feel.

Ultimately, we’d have to all just be for fun.

That’s right.

Beautiful.

Thank you.

I’m at checking in.

I’m at checking in.

Yeah, like the way you just ended Greg.

I always take me back to like, I like to remember the place where I first heard Alan Watts say like, life is a play of energy now.

And with the emphasis on play.

And just there’s so many fun ways to take that.

And that’s wonderful.

Yeah, it seems, you know, I think another thing that like I’ve been sitting with as we’ve been talking today is like, it’s, it really I mean it’s something that like it’s so ordinary we take it for granted but it’s fascinating.

Like it’s so fascinating like watching like how like physical interacts with information, you know, like information like you can’t point to it you can’t touch it like you can’t hold it like, where does it exist.

But it’s like they’re this back and forth like information into into the physical and I don’t know, I, I find this whole the whole perfuming process like just memory, it’s like, it’s like, yeah, we have these supernovas were this, you know, creation, you know, and then eventually it’s come, you know, like, even just like cosmically like back into a black hole, you know, or back into a singularity.

And it’s all crushed again.

And then in between there’s just memory and information, you know, like that’s like the experience of it.

And, yeah, like on the on the macro and on the micro it’s like it’s, I find the whole thing fascinating.

Seems like we’re like agents of entropy, almost.

But, um, but yeah like back to that like just seeing how information is interacting with physical is is also still like it just to me like it’s a small clue, like, or maybe a giant clue that there’s.

Yeah, like what what’s behind that, you know, like this, this human realm is human experience like, you know, is it, is it some sort of like training ground or something like that, you know, or until we can sit with positive and negative infinity and be unbothered, you know, like our mind is still like in training, you know, where, you know, and I don’t know, all the ways that the mind works.

It just kind of pops up from itself and, yeah, it almost seems like there’s other dimensions at play, you know, it has to be even like you talked about quantum but yeah why I don’t know I like I like I’d like to sit back and just think of it as play as well.

At some point, not some objective not something to be accomplished, you know, but just a play of the dynamic energy, you know, and it’s like, if you can harness it you know, then, then yeah like you’re creating universes.

That’s pretty wild.

Thank you.

I wish I had a succinct answer to that question.

But I don’t.

So, I, where I land on it.

Because it is an infinitely bothersome question, like not have a direct answer to it.

The closest that I’ve come to that’s that I’ve been able to be vaguely okay with is all of this is the only way that the mind works.

The only way that the divine gets to experience itself.

And to just be a little itty bitty part of that is.

It’s awesome.

Blessing every day.

Look at it that way.

It kind of helps a little bit to take the edge off of all the crazy in the world and recenter back on what each of us happens to be so meaningful.

So, yeah, but it’s the way I got nothing.

I mean, not a clue just glad to be a part of it.

That’s all I get.

Thank you.

I have tried on many different, many different metaphysical positions cosmology wise.

The one that I think has happened, or the one that’s been most persistent for me and the one that I feel most related to right now is that there is a spark.

Right.

And that spark is like a spontaneous combustion.

Drifts just a little bit.

And somehow, and a miracle of itself.

It remembers that it was from one place to another.

Now the line becomes a triangle.

And from that drastic manifestation.

The capitalistic emanation framework.

And once that began once, once the divine once the sublime started playing with itself.

Right.

I mean that euphemistically.

Then, then we all came.

And we get to live out the orgasm of creation.

And that’s pretty cool.

Right.

So, to get more complex than that in terms of how that beautiful orgasmic moment of itself playing with itself is going to turn back into impregnating itself.

Right.

There we go again.

Right.

Yeah, so divine love.

Creative capacity.

Why?

Because it just feels good.

So that’s me, coming with that, and deeply grateful to all of you for this ongoing conversation, we covered so much juicy material.

This particular section changes, we’ve got a little bit of prose left and then it turns into verse.

And I’m very interested to get into working on the verse I haven’t gotten there yet.

So next week we’ll probably pick up with that.

And should be lots of fun so hopefully to be able to see that.

Have a great week.

Do come again.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Oh, God, what is this?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,